On automobile forums, people are all over the place on when to change oil, with personal preferences being a major factor in the decision. However, too many people push their personal preferences as if they were on a stone tablet carried down from the mountain top, which can be really confusing when there are different personal preferences. Not to mention unpleasant at times when someone tries to force his opinion on others.

The most common personal preference seems to be oil and filter change every 3,000 miles. I have no problem with this decision, even if it could be shown to be unnecessary. Thirty dollars, 30 times, in 100,000 miles is peanuts compared to cost of a car or new motor. If someone feels better doing that, they sure need not explain to anyone. In fact, if a person has no specific reason when to change oil, but believes it need to be done more than factory recommendation, I think 3,000 miles for average drivers with traditional oil is probably a good idea.

Some people have reported similar cars in Europe have very long factory recommendations on oil change numbers, but no one seems to know why, unless it is a desire to reduce waste oil.

I am not exactly an average driver. I sometimes leave McAllen and drive thousands of miles before returning, and do not feel compelled to stop on the highway to change my oil at 3,000 miles as I would have in 1965. Oh, wait a minute, it would have been every 1,000 back then, right?

Also, over the years there have been some strong, but at times also wild, opinions stated on oil. One of the wildest was a person in the last week or two on CT who suggested anyone who believed synthetic oil had any advantages was experiencing the placebo effect. Blechhh!!!

So, finally, earlier this year, I decided to run my oil a bit longer than usual and have it tested to settle the matter once and for all FOR MY DRIVING PATTERNS. I didn't realize at the time all the information one gets in the test. I thought I would just find out if the oil was still usable. (It was.)

My driving, mileage wise, is mostly highway, but I spend some months a year here in Mexico, in a dusty quarry town, and take a number of short trips a week, plus several hours to the city for shopping each month.

I returned to the States in early October, and changed out my Mobil-1 EP, and Toyota filter, which had 8800 miles on them, and the motor had around 158,000 on it. I sent a sample to Blackstones. I do not intend to endorse them over any other lab, assuming others exist. It was simply the one I read about. I think by the time I paid (Fed Ex or UPS? I forget, though I know where the drop-off place is) shipping, to avoid dealing with government employees, it came to the thirties.

I expected to post the report but it says Copyright all over it. I can see that. If I start summarizing or explaining it, I may not do it accurately.

To my surprise the oil test is a good report on engine condition and wear. They check a variety of "wear contaminations", compares them to their running average of test customers, and explains what that contamination tells you about your motor. If your lead contamination is high, that implies, for example, more bearing wear. There is one which they say may indicate worn rings with blow-by. Copper might be wear on another part of the motor. There are others as well. Water in the oil is measured. Gasoline. Antifreeze contamination will be reported. Silicon indicates the amount of dust which gets past the air filter, and mine agreed with use in a dusty quarry town, heh, heh.

The average mileage on a Blackstone oil test is around 4800 miles, as compared to my 8800 miles. Some of my wear contaminations were higher than average, but not in proportion to the fact it had nearly twice the miles on it.

The 'tbn' whatever that is, which they say correlates to remaining additives, was around 2, and new runs perhaps 10 or so. So, at 8800 miles, I feel (my own ignorant opinion, or personal preference if you wish) I would not want to have used that oil more than 10,000 miles or so.

Blackstone did not exactly say the oil was still good. What they said was they recommended testing it again after another 7,000 miles. I may be wrong, but I cannot imagine their lawyers telling them to recommend putting another 7,000 miles on bad oil.

At the same time, I also don't feel compelled to change my Mobil-1 EP oil under current warm weather driving conditions before perhaps 7,500 miles minimum.

I had thought to do this testing only once. But, now that I have learned it supplies a lot of information on motor condition, I will probably do it every year or two. It's just too much information for too small a price.

I am not going to 'recommend' others have their oil tested. I will say that the information it supplies on the condition of the motor makes it a rational act if someone wants to do it. The thing to remember is each car and its maintenance and its uses are different, so one cannot use my test results to make his own decision on oil changes.

You make it sound as though you might recommend a used oil analysis for used cars before you buy them. That wouldn't be a bad idea.

Personally, I change my oil every 3,000 miles because my car doesn't get much use these days, and doing it every 3,000 miles ends up being every 7-10 months.

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Jeremy

"...3,000 miles is always a good decision if that is what suits a person."

I disagree. What happens to the used oil? Is it recycled? If so, there is a cost associated with it that is not necessary, except in rare instances where someone actually needs to change at 3000 miles due to severe environmental conditions. California encourages their citizens, and by extension everyone, to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. Here's an explanation and some quotes for knowledgeable professionals - and a couple of scalawags we're familiar with.

http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/

I'm of the belief that there are far too many generalizations in the automotive world and oil changes are just one of them.
IMO, it boils down to mileage, time, enviromental conditions, driving habits, etc.

Synthetic or dino, I don't have a problem with going 4 or 5k miles on oil change intervals if the car sees a majority of highway driving.
One of my sisters in law has a Trailblazer and that poor car gets an oil change once a year. This car also seldom ever goes more than 2 miles at a time and often, not even that. The engine seldom ever gets warm enough to even open the thermostat.

In cases like this, an engine can be prone to sludging and in her case (which is about a severe as it gets) the oil should be changed every 2-3k miles or 3-4 months due to dust and high humidity here.
I've seen a number of sludged engines over the years and the common denominator was infrequent oil change patterns.

I may have misunderstood your tone, for two reasons, JT. One, it is a well known phenomenon that it is easy to misunderstand people on the Internet when there are no physical clues to judge by.

The second reason is what is politely called cyber-bullies, on CT. As I said, they were hitting me pretty hard because I said my oil was still good at 8800 miles, and could have gone 10,000 with no damage to the motor. One of my postings, which had absolutely nothing offensive in it, unless the word "dorks" to describe the person who went 60,000 miles with no oil change is considered a violation, was removed to the moderator's queue. My guess is there are some bullies who want to silence me for daring to disagree with them, though I have been very conciliatory , and they are aware that if enough people flag a posting it goes away even if there is nothing wrong with it. And, except for that one word, dorks, there was absolutely nothing offensive in it. As I said, over there, I was taking heat for pointing out my oil was still good at 8800 miles, and then over here you criticized me for stating my belief that changing at 3,000 miles is okay if that's what trips your trigger.

Actually, I try not to emphasize the fact that I disagree with someone, preferring to state my viewpoint. I was moderator on a social issues board, and tried to coax them to say, "I have a different opinion" rather than "I disagree" because (see reason #1) there are people who view that latter statement as a personal attack, whereas the first one is seldom taken that way.


I do stand pat. I do think it is acceptable to change oil at 3,000 miles if it makes one feel better about his car. And, I do not think people who change at 3,000 should be harassed about it. In the same manner, I don't think people who advocate finding out how long oil will last for a given driving pattern should be subject to criticism for that. My view of a good forum is one where people simply state and explain their opinions, and let the readers make their choice.

Big Brother is universally understood to be government agencies who tell people how and when and with which hand to do things. The manufacturer does not demand oil changes except for warranty compliance. The manufacturer makes recommendations, but does not tell anyone their methodology, and I, like many people am not going to take their word with no back up explanations. They may be willing to shorten the life of my motor just to make customers happy with low maintenance requirements.

One of the things in modern times I find objectionable is the tendency of people of a certain type, I call them greenies, not technically correct, who can't sleep nights for contemplating the vast numbers of human beings on the planet. They calculate or estimate how much water a person uses while brushing teeth, multiply by 6 billion and freak out. Omigod, we gotta' use less water brushing our teeth. Or, in one case, they estimated how much t.p. a person uses, multiplied it by the nation's population, then some wacky actress went on the media telling us we should only use one sheet per trip to the bathroom. So, I see this worry about how much oil is 'wasted' by changing too often as fitting in the same category. The only answer is to force or pressure people to do something which makes their life less pleasant, and most such things are based on the theory that the US is not strong enough to handle such things. Sure, we are, if we put the producers in charge, not the greenies.


All this discussion is sort of pushing me to try dino oil on my car for a few thousand miles, then get it tested to see how it runs out, to see what real differences, if any, there are. I hesitate to extend it, because I believe my 2002 Sienna is one of the sludge models.

Also, I may sign up on the forums of bobistheoilguy to see what I can learn.


In my opinion, a lot of the heat on oil changes is people who have an opinion with no data. Those who choose to change at 3,000 miles do so for emotional reasons, not scientific, though to listen to them not changing that often is destroying your motor and we who do it differently are idiots who just don't know how to take care of a car.

Sort of like the bullying I experienced when I reported in reference to mice in wiring harnesses, how well ultrasonics works in my house in Mexico to drive out mice and scorpions. the man who bullied me is actually one of the better mechanics (who is also a member of this board with few postings) whose postings on car problems are usually right on the money. Yet, though he admitted he knew absolutely nothing about ultrasonics, except something he read once, and which I suspect he did not quote correctly, was determined to imply I was either a liar or stupid. There is just too much of this nasty stuff on boards and it not only drives people away, but also stops the flow of information to have someone with no solution bullying someone who does know. I may write it up here, because the best idea anyone else could come up with was smearing what seems like large quantities of Tabasco sauce all over the engine compartment. I am not saying mice can eat the stuff, because I don't know, but the idea of putting a wet substance all over the place sounds suspect to me.


I have my own message board. It is not too active, only a handful of members, but they get information they can't get elsewhere, based on my knowledge of Mexico. I would rather have three members on a positive board than hundreds on a board filled with anger and insults, which has been the case recently on the topic of oil changes on CT.

In Ohio, the weather can be humid and warm, or dry and cold and anywhere in between. I fall into the same category as your sister in that I rarely drive more than 2~5 miles one way to work or the store. while my temp gauge usually reaches operating temp, it's not for very long, nor do I don't take very long highway trips. I usually go no more than 4 months inbetween oil changes. However, based on the mileage you state, that 2~3k could be once a year

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I have been having similar thoughts. For anyone who hasn't figured it out, I have been posting on CT under a different name. I have recently scaled back my time spent there. It is kind of an addiction, but I just got back from vacation and, after doing some reading, I don't believe I have missed anything.

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Jeremy

Whitey

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Jeremy