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Rank: Old Wrench Experienced Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/6/2008
Posts: 73
Points: 219
Location: Tucson
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Hello everyone,This is Oldschool from Cartalk,here I am Newschool, I have something to add about a 1999 740 that came in while I was at the Dealer in Milwauke. The problem was nothing electrical on the right front door worked. After a bit of searching I found at the point where the door wiring passes into the body (there was a connector) the wiring was destroyed by corrosion,now what to do,no one wanted to re-wire the car. BMW tols us to use a break-out wire harness and patch it into the existing car harness,fine with me,I was very suprised BMW allowed this kind of repair under warranty.BMW and GM is where I spent most of my automechanic life but everything started with VW,An Independant on every corner in Southern CA. in the 70's.
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Rank: Old Wrench Junior Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 37
Points: 111
Location: Boston, MA
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Sounds about right if it's a break at the door. They do anticipate a break at a stress point like that, but they do not anticipate broken wires inside the cabin itself. No way to know for sure what goes through their minds though at corporate.
As for you working at both BMW and GM all I can is that must have been quite the contrast haha.
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Rank: Old Wrench Regular
Groups: Old Wrench Member
Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 327
Points: 981
Location: Central Maryland
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Who was more professional? BMW, GM, or VW?
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Rank: Old Wrench Experienced Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/6/2008
Posts: 73
Points: 219
Location: Tucson
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Hello everyone, At the time I left BMW for good in 2002 the cancer of the Dealer (better known as Auto Nation) had not yet taken hold. At BMW you had a twice monthly meeting (in the shop informal) with your Tech Rep. they asked what you were doing,problems,asked for input this was a good thing. In 2001 BMW of N.A. raised the time for every operation by 25%,they said it was done for Tech retention. Any Tech was allowed to contact Tech Asst. things were very informal.
Now with BMW all Tech Asst. request are submitted online and the contact is nill. Dealer training was very good and still is,they treat you very well at school.
Things are really bad at Auto Nation dealerships,there the ones pushing all these flushes and dealer recommended services,staying open late, Saturdays and never any more guarantees (hour guarantees)
Both Gm and BMW would hire unqualified people,the volume was much greater at GM (no suprise) Upsales were much better at BMW,you dealt with extended warranty much more with GM.
I really havan't been at a real sleazy Dealership,some of the stories at CT are pretty bad
My best friend is 32 BMW Master Tech and way burned out
The Ford guys really sound like they are beat up by the system.
I am sure we will deal with this issue more in future posts. Like I told Jad I am I school ,Business Adm major,returning as a Service Advisor.I am 53 and my back is killing me.
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Rank: Old Wrench Expert Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 182
Points: 449
Location: Newmarket, Ontario,Canada
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Good to see you here Old/New School.
What you fellows have been talking about is exactly what I have been longing to see ever since I joined CT a couple of years ago.
But it never happened there.
Thank God Jad started this site and you guys started this thread.
This new found (to me) knowledge gives me (us) a totally different perspective on the knowledge and experience of todays' techs. I don't call you fellows 'mechanics' anymore.
Mechanics don't have the extensive modern technical training involved with working on todays vehicles. IMO.
My independent tech/shop is the best I have ever used since owning my first vehicle in 1960 (a '54 Chev sedan for $400).
The (family owned and operated) business has been in business for almost 20 years now and I have taken my vehicles to them for 18 of them.
You were talking about training before. The owner at 'my' shop has seven techs (min. ten years experience each) and three apprentices.
He sends the apprentices to tech school three times a year and is constantly buying the latest diagnostic equipment and the training that goes with each.
I knew I'd chosen the right shop when I found the owner (Gary) had actually saved me money the very first time at his shop. He knows where to find good aftermarket components as opposed to the dealers.
The latest visit was to fix the window regulator in the passenger door of my '02 Tahoe.(rusted/frayed regulator wire) He phoned a GM dealer who quoted almost $600 for the motor/regulator. When I said NFW! he said "BUT, I can get an aftermarket one for $125". You can imagine what I said then. I almost (repeat, almost) hugged him.
Here's another instance: when the self-leveling system (in my '00 Olds Silhouette) started losing air in one (leaking) shock and repeatedly had to build up, I asked him to price it. "The dealer wants $400 for one shock". Well, he ain't gettin' it from me.
Then he suggested installing 2 regular shocks at $120 a piece. NOW, he didn't have to suggest a cheaper alternative but that's the way he does business and I am thankful for it.
I never bothered replacing the shocks and simply pulled the fuse. I don't carry any heavy loads anymore with it and the Tahoe does any towing needed.
Then people wonder why we always recommend independents except for warranty (IF it covers the repair for free) and recalls.
I hope to read many more posts of your experiences. Good on ya!
The trouble with doing nothing is not knowing when you're finished.
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Rank: Old Wrench Junior Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 37
Points: 111
Location: Boston, MA
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I have a strong dislike for overly complicated suspension systems that cost outrageous amounts to repair (Range Rover air bag systems come to mind). Give me coil springs and a good quality shock anytime.
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Rank: Old Wrench Experienced Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/6/2008
Posts: 73
Points: 219
Location: Tucson
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Roadrunner,Those regulators started going bad about six months after that body style came out,(uses a cable and some plastic wheels) that door panel comes off in about 5min.(not exagerating) and the regulator is bolted in (no rivets) very easy job, part cost is extreme. I put my first On-Star in a 2000 Tahoe (I think that was the first year for that body style-right).And did my first rear air install in the previous body style. My area was interior trim ,light line,electrical,and AC. Did not get involved in all the Dexcool,manifold and brake work,did plenty of seat belt,seat recliners,carpets,headliners,dashes and window requlators. I was the guy who installed all the Dealer installed alarms (Code Alarm VSS 150 VSS300) Campaign on front seat belts for your Tahoe Yes? Took about 20min but you really needed good hand strength. Corvette uses that same style regulator and we did plenty of those.
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Rank: Old Wrench Experienced Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/6/2008
Posts: 73
Points: 219
Location: Tucson
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Dave G,were you at BMW when we did all those fan replacements? That was a feeding frenzy. Question about a CT post guy had a questino about the compression arm on his Chrysler. BMW use compession arms on their cars didn,t they? what did they call them(part of multi-link front suspension) I can remember replacing the bushings at the rear of the link but the tapered ball joint at the front never showed any wear. In Milwauke we did alot of lower control arms on E-46's( balls joints out of tolerence) but my Tech friends in Tucson saw very few,what about you,and how about E-36 ball joints? alot in Milwaukee.
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Rank: Old Wrench Expert Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 182
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Location: Newmarket, Ontario,Canada
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[quote=Newschool]Roadrunner,Those regulators started going bad about six months after that body style came out,(uses a cable and some plastic wheels) that door panel comes off in about 5min.(not exagerating) and the regulator is bolted in (no rivets) very easy job, part cost is extreme. I put my first On-Star in a 2000 Tahoe (I think that was the first year for that body style-right).And did my first rear air install in the previous body style. My area was interior trim ,light line,electrical,and AC. Did not get involved in all the Dexcool,manifold and brake work,did plenty of seat belt,seat recliners,carpets,headliners,dashes and window requlators. I was the guy who installed all the Dealer installed alarms (Code Alarm VSS 150 VSS300) Campaign on front seat belts for your Tahoe Yes? Took about 20min but you really needed good hand strength. Corvette uses that same style regulator and we did plenty of those.[/quot
Yeh, I surprised myself when the door panel popped off so fast and easy.
The trouble with doing nothing is not knowing when you're finished.
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Rank: Old Wrench Junior Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 37
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Location: Boston, MA
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Hey Newschool, I left BMW in 2001 so it's been a while for me on some of this stuff. I can tell you all about most cars built through 2001, but the E46's were new enough that I can't personally comment on the ball joints-though I've heard that the earlier designs wore quickly and were later updated from techs I still chat with. I don't remember any unusual amount of fan issues, but I do remember all the 4 cylinder 318 engines needing top-end rebuilds due to a gasket flaw. Also started catching the first of the BMW M3 engines grenading due to bearing issues, which BMW denied initially. Cars had to start running 10W-60 instead of the standard oil as insurance. I also am glad I miseed the crisis with the new 7 series when the computers were going haywire and they started shutting down at intersections for no reason.
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Rank: Old Wrench Novice
Groups: Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/26/2008
Posts: 7
Points: 21
Location: Charleston, SC
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Another BMW and Now MINI tech here....Been at BMW since '99 but started working on Volvos in '90 and been doing ever since...I found this forum when looking on Google about technician backflagging when not having enough punchtime. Saw the thread on Nightmare repairs and the master tech doing a harness in a 740il and just chuckled...Been there, done that. The problem with my harness was the reading light contact in the LR was melted and burned a wire along the DSC harness. My rep said put a harness in her. I probably had a week in it after finding the problem and waiting on the rep. I save some pictures if someone can direct me on how to host them. Technical support nowadays is a nightmare. PUMA sucks and I believe the Germans browbeat them or at least they let them get away with it. I have written several letters and attended meetings with them and even had to go to NJ one time. It's all about the information and training. No sense in having a technical department that doesn't know more that I do....
Chad
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Rank: Old Wrench Experienced Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/6/2008
Posts: 73
Points: 219
Location: Tucson
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Hello Chadtoolio, Welcome to our Forum, The 7 series (in all it's versions) was never my favorite for making money.
Give me a E-39 any time.
I left BMW 2001-2002.
Did the X-5 turn into a real pain to work on?, I made a lot of money putting trailer hitches on them (paid 5hrs.)
Do you remember all the electric fans we did in 2001? Do you still have your watch?
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Rank: Old Wrench Novice
Groups: Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/26/2008
Posts: 7
Points: 21
Location: Charleston, SC
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Thanks for the welcome................ I don't think they were that bad, but In 2005, I went to working on strickly the MINI's so I would have so many models to be an focus on. Turned out with gas prices and niche market, that it wasn't such a bad idea. I did a ton of those fans...did you remove the bumper or did you find the trick for removing the fan by pulling it out the bottom....The watch never suited me, it was just too big, so I sold it. They called it appreciation for our dillagence, but we called it a hush watch. They payed real well, so we were happy to do them. 
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Rank: Old Wrench Experienced Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/6/2008
Posts: 73
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Location: Tucson
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Chadtoolio. Now you make me feel bad on E-39's I always removed the bumper, I got very quick (but there was a trick!!!!!!)
The watch didn't suit me either,sold it,to a Honda Service Advisor,go figure
How did you guys accept the flat-rate time adjustment that came around 2000-2001 (everything up by 25%) my dealer said "we don't have to do this for you" They didn't even tell us, I found out from a Tech in another state,They didn't like that I let the shop know about it. BMW policies were always the Lead Tech's job of informing,I am glad he moved to Florida.
Best Regards
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Rank: Old Wrench Novice
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Joined: 9/26/2008
Posts: 7
Points: 21
Location: Charleston, SC
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Ahhhhh, I thought you were still talking about the X5. We seemed to do alot more of those than the E39 fans. As for the labor time hike, I think it was a stupid way to do it, but we accepted it gladly and still use it today. I think my dealer was very forthcoming about it and really always is. We really didn't have a lead tech or shop foreman until we moved into our current facility in 2005. We have several senior techs including myself. I am basically the shop foreman for MINI and would rather not have the BMW shop foreman getting involved with our cars. Sort of a pride thing, just try to handle everything "in house". My manager probably gives me more information than others(emails, bulletins for specific areas, FSE memos) to read over, but I try and keep my guys up to date and don't hold anything back.
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Rank: Old Wrench Experienced Member
Groups: Founding Member
, Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/6/2008
Posts: 73
Points: 219
Location: Tucson
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Chadtoolio,Thanks for the response,so you could drop the X5 fan out the bottom,I am retired so I will never get to try.
About the X5 I hear there is a 5min way to change turn signal bulbs (front) is that true?
Do the X5's come with the trailer hitch already installed now,that was my favorite job.
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Rank: Old Wrench Novice
Groups: Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/26/2008
Posts: 7
Points: 21
Location: Charleston, SC
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Yep, it would drop right out the bottom....The only way to get the bulb in and out of that thing in five minutes is to have all the parts ready and put the H-A$$ on. The trailer hitch specialist here is Matt G. He's gotten pretty good at them, and they are still dealer installed IIRC.
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Rank: Old Wrench Novice
Groups: Old Wrench Member
Joined: 9/26/2008
Posts: 7
Points: 21
Location: Charleston, SC
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Been awhile.....
Update to the flatrate increase....it was taken away on 1-1-09!
Hah. I left the dealer in April of '09, LOL
Opened my own shop, work alot more hours for now, but get the reward of fixing stuff my way.
Happy Holidays everyone.
Chad
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